Kelly Perry - 00:01 - You are listening to the Team Flower podcast where we talk about flowers, but the people who've dedicated their lives to sharing them with the world. We believe that your work with flowers matters, and we're here today to cheer you on. My name's Kelly and today we're talking with Margie Keates of The Lovely Ave, a company that makes it beautiful paper flowers. Margie began making flowers on her own for her own wedding in 2013 and after two years of side projects and spending every available moment perfecting the craft, the Lovely Ave opened its online doors today is comprised of a wonderful team that includes 10 interns, right hand assistant, and a fast and reliable paper cutter. The high quality crepe paper is hand cut. All the flowers are handmade by Margie and The Lovely Ave team in their small studio in downtown Salt Lake City. In this episode, Margie is giving us behind the scenes view into her world of paper blooms. 

Kelly Perry - 00:52 - She's sharing her creations step by step and we're diving into what it looks like to work with the team and how each person's role is vital to the success of the company. So why paper flowers? How do you use them in conjunction with real flowers? Folk we're talking about it today. This podcast is brought to you by Team Flower and online support community dedicated to educating, connecting, and empowering flower lovers like you worldwide. We provide online classes in person events in three weeks. Three, resources like this podcast is designed to support you in your journey with flappers. Whether you're a professional, our farmer, florist, or who just love flowers. There's a place for you here. Welcome. Come join the party at teamflower.org. 

Kelly Perry - 01:33 - Margie, it's so great to have you on the Team Flower podcast today. Welcome. 

Margie Keates - 01:37 - Thank you so much, Kelly. I really appreciate it. I'm so excited. 

Kelly Perry - 01:40 - Yeah, we're excited to have somebody on who has life with flowers in a way that, um, is a little bit different than than me. You do paper flowers and arrange paper flowers. Tell us a little bit about how you got started with that and what led you to start creating beautiful blooms using paper. 

Margie Keates - 02:02 - Of course. So I started making paper flowers for my own wedding in 2012. Um, and I really have no idea what kind of pushed me to do this. I'm not, I was never, never thought of myself as a creative person. I graduated, interesting. Graduated in Exercise Sports Science from the University of Utah. I wanted to be a physical therapist. So I, um, I love science. I love getting answers out of books like I'm not. Um, I didn't create, I never was an artistic person. So, um, I was getting married. I had a year and a half engagement. I was paying for my own wedding. And so when I started looking at everything that I'm, everything costs obviously when I started looking at the cost of things, um, I realized that flowers were very expensive and I live in a city that actually flopped like flower budgets here are actually quite low. Um, I live in Salt Lake City, Utah. 

Margie Keates - 02:56 - And, um, you can get gorgeous blooms and gorgeous designs by amazing people for quite low, but I was still on a pretty strict budget so I, um, was on Pinterest one day and saw a paper flower bouquet and I was like, what is this? I've never seen it before. And um, it was made out of book paper, like literally sheets from a book and I don't know why it had nothing to do with my wedding, but I was so enamored by this, this ability to create something out of paper like this. I've never seen it before. So, um, I took to Michael's first time in that store. I bought some scissors and some hot glue gun and um, I just kinda went to town and my first flowers, I was very proud of them back then, but I, I'm, I'm really scared of them now. 

Kelly Perry - 03:45 - But I think all of us sort of probably feel that way to an extent about whatever the thing is that we tried first 

Margie Keates - 03:54 - We tried first. So, um, I, you know, I, I stopped, I, after my wedding I just kind of put all my tools away because I didn't really necessarily want to keep doing that and I kept getting asked by friends and family to make flowers for different types, like sort of occasions, but I realized that he didn't want to use the medium I'd use for my wedding, which was like scrap booking paper. I was using like card stock, which was really hard to work with. And of course the flowers did not look real adult. Um, and I jumped on Instagram, um, sometime in mid 2013 and that's when I found no, it was mid 2014, excuse me. And that's when I found these crepe paper florists that we're using this gorgeous medium that these flowers looked realistic. There's no way they were paper, but they were. So one of them is kind enough to tell me what paper she was using. I bought a few rolls and I just became obsessed. I came home after work everyday and started making flowers and realized it was what made me happy. 

Margie Keates - 04:51 - Um, and so from the timeframe of October of 2014 to January 2015, I made a good amount of flowers enough to say like, oh, I'll just start an Instagram, like I don't really know where this is going to go and it kind of blew up. And so I, um, I asked my, my amazing husband if I could quit my job, she was like, excuse me, what are you going to do? And I'm like, I'm going to be a paper florist. He was like, what? But um, we made it work. I opened up my website in April of 2015 and um, worked out of my home for the first two and a half years and got lucky enough to find a studio space in an old part of downtown Salt Lake. And that's where we are now. 

Kelly Perry - 05:32 - Oh, that's so cool. Well, tell us, tell us what your website is and your Instagram just in case. I know with the podcast format, it's like, oh, I just want to like get my hands. I want to see it really quick. Or Seattle, just in case if somebody feels the same way, you want to just tell everybody what those things are. 

Margie Keates - 05:47 - Absolutely. The website is thelovelyave.com like avenue, so A-V-E- and the Instagram is the same. The Lovely Ave, @thelovelyave. So I definitely think that you have to see what I'm talking about when most people don't really fully understand what I mean by paper flowers until they, they look at our account. Um, and yeah, that's, those are two places to come see what we, the way we work and we are able to ship our flowers anywhere. So that's actually most of our sales are out of state. So. 

Kelly Perry - 06:19 - Well walk us through the process of creating a paper flower. Like are you looking at a photo or do you visit gardens? Like where are you kind of deciding what the next thing is? 

Margie Keates - 06:33 - Yeah, absolutely. So, um, when I first started I was just trying to get the understanding of the paper in the first place. So, um, now that I know my paper, I know how it works. There's only, what, three different manufacturers of crepe paper in the world, and so all paper florists are using the same paper, which is amazing because if you, if you do your research and look at any other paper for us, everyone's work looks so different. Um, and so the process that I take, um, it took me awhile to understand it because I had to trust my own hands and trust the paper and basically stop being such an OCD freak. Nature isn't perfect and I was trying to make a flower perfect. And that's not how it works. So, um, I used to buy real flowers and take them apart. That was my template, um, because when I started there weren't many templates out there. So, um, I would buy real flowers from the grocery store, kind of take them apart. And that would be what I would start. 

Margie Keates - 07:30 - Now I can pull up a photo and see a flower and go, okay, this flower is, you know, a lot softer than say, this flower so that I know I need to use this type of paper. And then most of the time I just have the paper that I need around me and I cut as many petals as I think I might need and I just kind of start going at it. My process is probably not the best way to do it because they don't necessarily take notes when I first make a flower, um, because I don't think that it's, it helps with creativity. So instead I just kind of let my hands and the paper do the work and then at the end I'm like, this is beautiful. How did I make this? But that's basically how it is, is I'm kind of getting to know my medium as well as I possibly can. And also I'm letting go of wanting it to be perfect. Just knowing that like what I make is going to be beautiful because I made it with my hands. And that in itself is amazing. 

Margie Keates - 08:28 - And so letting go of any of that fear of not being perfect has actually helped my work grow. And not only in making paper flowers, but I do arrange my flowers into centerpieces. We have done bouquets as well where we're raging with real flowers in real foliage to create a more realistic look and using that mentality of like trying not to have it be perfect and kind of letting the flower or the foliage tell me where it wants to go is kind of the way that I arranged and the way I designed. 

Kelly Perry - 09:03 - That's super fun. Um, are there any books that you feel like helped you as you were kind of getting started and maybe you'll write us a book.

Margie Keates - 09:14 - when I started to. Good at that. I know it would be great actually. Um, so when I started, I, there were no books, there was nothing really much out there at Pinterest was a big help. There were a few templates and a few resources, but now there's an amazing amount of resources for new beginners who want to start making paper flowers two of our pioneer, um, paper florists, Tiffany Turner and Jennifer Tran have written books that are beautiful and revolve around how to use this gorgeous crepe paper and create beautiful, realistic looking paper flowers. And both of those books are available on Amazon, so I'm, yeah, that's what I would recommend anybody to read or look into. But when I started I actually didn't have those resources. Um, however I did have access to Tiffany and Jennifer, both of them were very kind and friendly to me when I first started and now I consider them friends. I'm not sure if they consider me that because I'm still such a fan girl around them, but I wouldn't. Um, I started. I didn't really have that 

Kelly Perry - 10:18 - Financial support for the production of this podcast is brought to you by team flowers, bouquets, and personals online class. This comprehensive course includes over six hours of instruction designed to set you on your way, creating beautiful, sturdy bouquets and all kinds of personal flowers with ease. Learn, tried and true techniques for organic, tailored and cascading. Garden style bouquets. Discovered tips for creating bridal hair accessories, corsages and boutonnieres. Practice a wide variety of ribboning techniques. Don't forget about flower girls, ring bearers and pets. This in depth course covers timeless designs for them all. In addition to instructional videos. This class also includes comprehensive notes detailing stem counts, cost and supplies for each piece. You'll finish this course fully equipped with everything you need to know to make stunning bouquets and personals that the modern bride will love. Ready to jump in. You can find all the information at teamflower.org/online. 

Kelly Perry - 11:17 - Yeah, absolutely. So you said that you're, um, kind of shipping them all over the world. Are People using your arrangements for weddings? Are they using them for maybe store installs? What would you say the most commonly? Um, yeah. What are some of the common places that your flowers end up showing up? 

Margie Keates - 11:34 - Yeah. So, um, right now our most common thing that we do is house decor. So we, we specialize in how to make arrangements for synthetic foliage that are going to be perfect for your coffee table or perfect for your office. Um, where are, we also specialize in gifts. A lot of our flowers are sent as a gift to someone for their birthday, or our biggest time of the year is February and May. So for Valentine's Day, Mother's Day, those are huge holidays where we do our most work. Um, and then we transitioned into weddings. So when I first started I did try to offer a full wedding services, which was really difficult because, um, you know, brides want paper flowers in their bouquets and they love them in the bridesmaids bouquets as well because then their bridesmaids get to take something home and then they get to take something home. But in the center pieces it didn't really make any sense. It wasn't cost effective for my brights. 

Margie Keates - 12:27 - Um, and when I started this, I didn't necessarily want to become a full wedding florist. It after a summer of doing it, I realized I, I was okay at it, I wasn't the best and it didn't really make me happy. So we quickly switched our model to I'm offering paper flowers to other florists to needed a specific flower that wasn't in season or their enemies came in and they were terrible. So we've been working a lot with a lot of forest outside of Utah. Um, we have a few connections in the Utah as well where if something goes wrong, their floors can reach out to us as long as the bride's okay with that kind of look. Um, but you know, in my opinion, when you mix our paper flowers with real flowers and real full age, it's really hard to tell which is which is not, um, especially in photos. So yeah, we definitely pride ourselves in being an option for people. 

Margie Keates - 13:18 - Um, and then I do have a good amount of brides who will reach out and just place a huge ala carte order and basically, um, connect me with their florist and then me and the florist walked through different options and what color palette they need and um, how to work with the paper flowers, which is very, very simple. Most all of our flowers are actually quite sturdy. They can sit next to or right on top of or whatever. However you want to arrange real flowers and foliage and they won't get damaged. Of course the flowers have a little bit of, um, I mean they're, that they're alive. So they might transfer some water over to the paper, but it doesn't necessarily hurt the paper. Um, and whenever, excuse me, whenever we know that we will be arranging with real flowers, we make sure that our flowers are on different floral stems so that they can sit in water and nothing would get damaged. So as long as the water doesn't get tipped over, the paper flowers will be fine. So yeah, we just, 

Kelly Perry - 14:22 - I love that. That's so fun. Um, there's um, one of our flower friends over in Singapore, poppy, she has a signature red paper poppy that goes into each of her arrangements with her flowers since that one little piece of something that, that lasts and that hangs on for awhile. And I'm even thinking of a client that I have later this year who every time that I've talked with her, she said, I just want to figure out how I can preserve this. Um, you know, and some of the flowers that she's using just there. I mean, I'm sure if I was like a flower preservation scientists, like we could figure out how to make that work. Maybe you could, you know, you're the scientist among us, um, we could figure out how to make that work, but now I'm thinking I had never thought of that as an option before, so I'm so glad that we're talking and kind of like open opening that up for people who maybe have never met a paper florists before. 

Kelly Perry - 15:19 - But yeah, I think like for this particular client, like I think I think that she would love to have something like that that was just had that piece that she could take and that she could, um, cherish, you know, she obviously she loves the real flowers, but I do just a couple of stems mixed in there with something would be really, really lovely. And some of the flowers that you were creating that I've seen on your feet and things are extremely, extremely difficult to source wholesale unless you're in an amazing market. I live in a place where it's a little bit more difficult to source flowers sometimes. Sometimes it's on and it's amazing and then sometimes it's, you know, yeah, a little bit harder. And so I feel like that that's a great way. If you're wanting to work with some of these things that you're seeing, but you're just having such a difficult time sourcing that,

Kelly Perry - 16:15 - that could absolutely be an option as well. That's really neat. Well, you have several people on your team and you've kind of built that out. Um, tell us a little bit about your team and kind of how it, how it works and who's there and what everybody does. Are you still the, the chief of flower maker? Do you have some apprentices now? What does that look like for you? 

Margie Keates - 16:38 - So, I'm very lucky to live in an amazing city where there are a lot of young women and men who are interested in being creative. Um, and so I got lucky enough where, I think it was about two years ago where I realized I can't do this alone anymore. Um, but I wasn't in a position to be able to start paying someone and so I just put it out there like maybe people would want to intern. And so I, I kind of just put it out and said, hey, I'm hiring interns and I got so many messages and of course those messages cut down dramatically when I said it was an unpaid internship, but we still had about, I think our first round gave us about five interns. And um, at first when they came in it was just helping me with certain processes. So none of my. So right now we have 10 interns that help us and none of the interns know how to make paper flowers. However they do know how to make certain parts of the paper flowers. 

Margie Keates - 17:35 - So they've never been taught how to make the flour from start to finish. And that part of it is still a control thing of mine. I'm still, I'm still able to make all the flowers and keep up with our demand. And especially with their help though I wouldn't be able to do what I'm doing without knowing that they're coming in making 100 centers for pennies so they'll know how to make certain I'm pieces. But really it all started with just like meeting someone in a Starbucks and just going like, okay, well I'm, this is unpaid. And knowing that that means you can give me as much or as little time as you want. I mean, whatever time you give me is amazing. So I'm thankful for anything that you can. Um, and then I try to make sure to understand why they're even doing this. Why are you gifting either time in most wanted to figure out how to get into the wedding industry, if anything, because that's where I, when I first started, I was marketing myself pretty largely as a wedding expert. 

Margie Keates - 18:32 - So, um, I was happy to connect our interns with certain wedding industry individuals here and some were just very interested in collaborations and how stylized shoots worked. So then I would just make sure that those interns were involved whenever we did do a style a shoot, so we made sure that the relationship was reciprocal. But um, we also protected ourselves. So every internist signed a nondisclosure just because even though they're not making paper flowers, they're still in the same room as me. And I'm still happy to answer any questions for them. So if they're asking me how I'm making this flower, I'm not just going to be like, I can't tell you. No, I'll explain it and walk it through with them. Um, so yeah, we just, we, that's how it originally started. We had interns helping and then um, my first hire was actually my best friend because I started realizing the thing that was taking me the most time, our paper has to be hand cut. It's such beautiful quality paper, but it's, the reason we can create such gorgeous shapes is because it's crepe paper. It stretches 

Margie Keates - 19:31 - and some of our paper has up to 180% stretch, which it almost doubles in size when you stretch it all the way through. So it can't go through a dye cutter. It can't go through any type of printer because if it gets snagged accidentally, it just keeps pulling it until it ruins it. So everything has to be handcuffed. So at first I realized, I started looking at the things I, I hated most to do. And that was one of the reasons why it kind of pushed me to start asking for help was I don't like to cut paper. I don't like to make centers, I don't like to stem my flowers, I don't like to ship my things off, um, but I love making flowers. So let's, let me see if I can find help to help me do the other things. And I was a really big struggle for me though. I'm, I'm obviously said I'm a recovering control freak and um, that was hard for me to ask for help. I thought I could do it all and I definitely couldn't. 

Margie Keates - 20:22 - So having their help though has, um, pushed my business into such an amazing place and the work has gotten better because I've been allowed to sit back and really focus on what makes me happy, which is creating new flowers. Um, and so we've gotten to do more things because I've been able to say yes to projects because I knew that I had the help. Um, so yeah, I hired a paper cutter and she cuts my paper. And then the second hire was actually an intern who when she walked in, she immediately, I was like, Oh wow, you're incredible. And it was one of the first people that I taught how to make a flower. So from that point on we've just kind of stuck. I, they, the original interns that helped me two years ago are still helping me now, which is amazing. I don't really know why they're sticking around and yeah, we just, we pray. I didn't, I didn't need to ask for more help this year. Next year will probably be a little different. We have some new things in the horizon. 

Margie Keates - 21:16 - So yeah, we just, I just got lucky to be in a really great city where I have people who are willing to help and they are happy to be paid with donuts and um, I guess whatever they want to learn about. So if they want to be a part of a style shoot, like I said before, then I'm happy to help them. So there's that. 

Kelly Perry - 21:37 - Awesome. Well, what tips, um, what tips would you give to florists who want to use paper flowers in their arrangements? Can you tell us a little bit about like what do we do when we received them? How do we kind of care for them? You know, I know you mentioned that they're, they're very sturdy and as long as we don't dump water on them, they'll be okay. Um, but are there any tips or anything, you know, if we haven't used them before that we should kind of be aware of? 

Margie Keates - 22:06 - So the first thing I would say is I'm getting to know the paper florist to sending you the blooms, right? So having a great relationship or a good communication between that florist in you so that you know what you're receiving in the first place. But whenever I send flowers to, um, florist to arrange, um, we always make sure that, let them know that once you received the blooms, let's put them in a base somewhere that they're not laying on their own weight, even though they're sturdy. After a few days on their own weight, they will start to lose their shape. Um, and so, you know, get them in a vase and let them sit. Don't put them in direct sunlight. Most of our flowers are treated so that the UV rays don't hurt, it's too much, but I don't want it to dull and be more than it needs to. The paper does dole a few shades and most people wouldn't even notice, I noticed because they know what the original color was. Um, but we do a few different types of treatments that we use. Pan pastels, which is a really high quality soft pastel that we paint most of, some of actually almost half of our flowers we use it on now. 

Margie Keates - 23:02 - Um, it allows it so that we can get this two tone look and blooms that looks more realistic, but it also protects the paper. Um, it acts almost like a sunscreen. Um, so yeah, keeping them upright in, away from direct sunlight. And then when you are arranging with them, treat them like they're a real flower except for you can bend their stem so that you can put them wherever you want 

Kelly Perry - 23:02 - They're wired, everyone. 

Margie Keates - 23:26 - Yeah. They're wired. They have their own stems. And um, so that would be the one thing is getting the right tools. The stems will come unless specified otherwise we always put our stems on 14 inch stems. It's quite long, but I don't know what you're arranging. I don't know how you're going to arrange it, so I want to give you as much length as possible, uh, but then knowing that you're going to need something that can cut 16 gauge wire. But other than that, I mean play to your heart's content. We also have. Sorry, I didn't mean to go all the way back. We have two different stem options. If you're going to create flowers in a bouquet, I would most like I'm old, I'd most likely recommend the stem option that's quite thicker. Um, we source these stems were their wrapped with more paper so that the stem itself looks more realistic and it's thicker and it's easy and it feels more like a real stem. So when you're putting it into your arrangement or into a bouquet, you can feel it go through in it. 

Margie Keates - 24:24 - It's got so much, it's so much wider than a 16 gauge wire that it will stick in with your however you're arranging. Um, I like to range in a very loose and wild way, so I like to have the thicker stem because then it kind of grabs onto other stems. So that's the way I communicate with the florist is like, what are you arranging? If you're arranging a bouquet, then I will send you thicker stems. If you're arranging a centerpiece, I will send you the thinner stems because the thicker stems, the reason the sticker is that they're wrapped in paper and if you put that in water, they'll soak up the water. It won't hurt the paper flower though because it will get to the base of the flower and then just stop. It won't actually go past it. Um, so it's not a bad, it's not a big deal. Like, especially if you put a bouquet in water. So I don't think it's a big deal because you're put the bouquet in water, you take it out, you're going to use a towel anyway to get off the work at the water, off the stem so that it doesn't get on the bride's dress. It's drying off those papers stems. So it's not the end of the world, 

Margie Keates - 25:23 - But if it's sitting in a vase as a centerpiece, then I'd rather have it be wired. So, but it's just, I'm just knowing the two differences. A lot of paper florists don't offer two different wire options, they just offer one. Um, and so it's just kind of getting to know your florist and, and such. Um, but in regards to how you arrange the paper flowers, there are a few different flowers of ours that are quite delicate. Um, like our peonies actually are more sturdy flower, which is funny because I know that that's not the case for the real flower, but peony is definitely our most sturdy. Um, so it's also getting to know that florists arranging style. Right? So our flowers do the best in very open, um, wild staggered um kind of arrangements because there's not that many squished flowers together, but our flowers also do pretty well in more standard circular bouquet styles. 

Margie Keates - 26:20 - If that's the case though, then we'll definitely want to have that communication so that we're not sending you blooms that wouldn't survive in that kind of style because they would get squished by too much. Um, so yeah, it's just kind of getting to know each other. So having that communication, um, but I have never necessarily had a problem with mixing my flowers with real flowers other than the bouquet accidentally tipping over and water getting on them. Um, but as long as you pick it up and kind of distract pretty quick, it, you should be fine. So yeah, 

Kelly Perry - 26:57 - Financial support for the production of this podcast is brought to you by Team Flower's creating inspired design, fast track online class designed to set you free in your work with flowers. Nurturing creativity in our lives is important. Designing arrangements that our clients both love and are excited about is important too. If you've ever experienced that tension between what you'd like to create, what your client needs, this class will help together. We'll go on a journey and creative expression. We'll explore a personal design philosophies. Learn how to break out of creative breadths and step out from under the weight of perfectionism will cover both client and personal arrangements and learn techniques for bridging the gaps between these two types of work. If you're ready to get back to creating from a place of joy and inspiration, you can learn more at teamflower.org/online. 

Kelly Perry - 27:49 - Oh, that's so fun. I really have enjoyed this. So what would you, before we sign off here today, could you just tell us like a list of, um, maybe like some of your most popular blooms or some new things that you're. Some new things that we can see coming down the way or I don't know, just tell us what you're, what you're making. Help us see a little bit inside your studio. 

Margie Keates - 28:13 - Yeah, of course. So our most popular blooms are definitely, um, the temperamental blooms. So, and obviously the games that aren't in season that everyone wants. So our most popular bloom is our peony. Um, and then our second is our dahlia, just because dahlia is, I know are very temperamental and um, yeah. So our dahlia and then I think our third currently, um, I would say is our wild garden rose and I think the reason for that is because the wild garden rose variation that we do is always painted with the pen pastel so we can make quick sense, we can make if distant drums. Yeah. Um, so it's fun to be able to create that variation using these pastels and so you're almost getting a little piece of artwork in your bouquet. Um, so yeah, those are definitely our most popular when it comes to providing flowers for florists. 

Margie Keates - 29:09 - But like I said, I've been able to do flowers last minute and it just depends on what they might need at that time. Most of the time we have a lot of our, our standard blooms like our peonies, dahlias and wild garden roses and stock. Um, so yeah. Um, and then what's kind of coming down the pipeline we're really excited about our still life paintings. So we're really hoping to, to be able to host a gallery at the end of the summer where we show off every painting we've created, which has been great for me because, um, I actually follow a lot of florist on Instagram in order to get obviously more inspiration and, and, and try new flowers. And so I've been hoarding a lot of different arrangement styles from people and hopefully get to kind of put my own spin on it and learn from that. So yeah, that's kind of what's coming down the pipeline is, is to make more of our still Iife. 

Kelly Perry - 30:04 - okay. And are they like a 3D? 

Margie Keates - 30:09 - Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So we, we put them on the, on like a canvas backing or a frame backing and the flowers themselves are what creates it, the red looks. So they're coming off of the frame but they're attached and so they're not going to fall off. And I think our smallest frame right now is like 16 by 24. No, 18 by 24. So they're quite large. Um, which is really a lot of fun. So like seeing them in person is, I think what people would rather would need in order to fully grasp how um, how, I mean they're, they're just like, thought provoking. You look at them and you want to create 

Kelly Perry - 30:09 - It sounds very dynamic. 

Margie Keates - 30:47 - Yeah. I'm really, really excited about him. So anyway. Yeah, that's what, that's what we're doing. 

Kelly Perry - 30:52 - Great. That's so great. Thank you so much for coming on today and just opening our eyes to a different perspective, a different point of view and for sharing your talents and everything with us. Is there anything that you'd like to say before we sign off here today? 

Margie Keates - 31:08 - Absolutely. Um, don't be afraid to use paper flowers or synthetic, but paper flowers as an option. There are so many amazing artists out there that are incredible at what they do. And um, it is possible to mix paper real and have it be and have it turned out beautiful. But if you're nervous or worried or feel free to reach out to any of us, any of you can reach out to me. We can do a discounted rate for your first couple of blooms and that way you can play around with it first before you show your brides, but, and then you can keep those blooms and show the bride's lives as well. So, um, it's, it's, it's not like, not that I'm saying that going full synthetic is bad, but I know that there is definitely a negative connotation around synthetic blooms and I think that's what we're trying to break that mold of. You can use paper and have it still look realistic and, and make sure that you're bright and your client is happy because you're providing what them, what you weren't able to source so we can work together and make their day amazing. 

Kelly Perry - 32:08 - Make the magic happen. That well. Thanks again so much and to all of you out there who are listening, it's been great to have you today and I hope that this inspires you to think outside the box and take your creativity to the next level. 

Kelly Perry - 32:25 - As we sign off today. I want to remind you that your work with flowers matters. It's about more than the blooms. You're loving the world. You make magic happen. You're creating memories. You're following a dream. Delivering light and grace here at team flower were cheering you on one bloom at a time. Thank you for listening to the podcast and until next time, remember that we're so thankful for each bucket that you wash and each bag of garbage that you take out of your studio that makes all of this possible. If you're looking for more floral education, that's free conversation or inspiration. Just visit teamflower.org/free to see the library of helpful videos and articles for florists, growers and flower business owners. You'll find helpful tips on everything from creating flower walls to hiring freelancers and much, much more.