Kelly Perry - 00:01 - You are listening to the Team Flower podcast where we talk about flowers with the people who've dedicated their lives to sharing them with the world. We believe that your work with flowers matters and we are cheering each of you on. Hi, my name's Kelly, and today we're talking with Lou and Andrea have LynnVale Studios. In this episode Andrea and Lou is sharing their roles on the farm, how they play into their strengths and run their farm with excellence. Lou is talking about his passion for art and how he uses it to teach others along with the importance of looking at your work objectively and exercising imagination. Andrea is diving into the obstacles she's facing as a grower both internally and externally and how she's overcoming them. So whether you're here to be encouraged in your farming process or to be challenged with this designer, you'll find it all right here and more on the Team Flower podcast. This podcast is brought to you by Team Flower and online support community dedicated to educating, connecting and empowering flower lovers worldwide. We provide online classes in person events and free weekly resources like this podcast designed to support you in your journey with flowers. 

Kelly Perry - 00:59 - Whether you're a professional florist, farmer or you just love flowers. There's space for you here, come join the party at teamflower.org. Lou and Andrea. It's so great to have you here today. Thank you for coming on the podcast. 

Lou Gagnon - 01:18 - Thank you for having us. 

Andrea Gagnon - 01:20 - I'm excited to be here. 

Kelly Perry - 01:22 - Well, you know. Well, tell us a little bit more about yourselves and we can just start, start with Andrea and then Lou, you can interject as she goes along or then share your part and reverse that afterwards. I know with having multiple people on the podcast, sometimes it can be confusing who's talking when and next, but yeah, we'll just, we'll, I guess we'll do it that way and just let us know a little bit about your background and what brought you to what it is that you're doing. You have such a unique setup. It LynnVale Studios with both the flowers and the art as well and it's really interesting too. I've been there several, well twice I've been up to the farm and um, I think it's a really fun and a very special place. I know I told you guys this one I've already visited last, but it's really, it's the place that I got a little glimpse into that Team Flower was a part of my future.

Kelly Perry - 02:20 - And so it was a really special moment out there in the flower field with flower friends from all over the world and just getting a little taste of, of what that could look like and be like. And so I'm very grateful for this space that you've created personally. And I know there've been lots of other people that have come through for workshops and lessons and all kinds of events, all kinds of different things that have probably had some similar experiences whether you've heard about them or not. So special place. So anyway, Andrea, I'll let you go ahead. 

Andrea Gagnon - 02:53 - Oh, thank you so much Kelly. Well, how did I get here? I'm originally um Lou and I met in architecture school at Virginia Tech. I'm originally from New Jersey and I grew up with in the suburbs, but the daughter of two parents that both had farms in their background. So as a child I grew up visiting farms and my father was a history of architecture not. And so we went to a lot of great places and gardens, historic homes. I really developed a passion, I think early on for that kind of thing, you know, investigating places and I really had a desire someday to create a special place to live. I just didn't know how that would happen and who with and then I. and then I met Lou in school and we headed west. So we were out west for 10 years practicing architecture and both in Oregon initially. And then we had two children at when we moved to LA. 

Andrea Gagnon - 03:53 - Um, and I'm sure Lucan elaborate on that. Um, and then we really had a strong desire, I think to someday return to the east coast. We had both had family here, strong family connections. Uh, the farm is eight generations family owned through loose family. And so, um, I was happy to join an amazing group of, I guess a farming tradition in this family and I think we wanted our children to experience, I think what Lou had experienced as a child, so we knew it was going to happen in our future. We just didn't know when at I'm sure Lou can elaborate on how that happened. 

Lou Gagnon - 04:30 - As Andrea mentioned, this was the, were the eighth generation, the farm goes back to 1832. I kind of grew up doing the cattle and recording thing and went to architecture school so I wouldn't have to do that anymore. And one thing led to another and ended up being in the entertainment industry. It was a concept architect for Walt Disney imagineering. And so I got to experience how very unusual some people would say park impossible projects happened. And the reason that we ended up doing what we do with starting when we started, when we started it, was that I had just finished an attraction, a Epcot in Orlando. And the next opportunity was to go do work on the new park that was being developed. And in, uh, Hong Kong and I had already designed a or a hotel in Tokyo, so I knew what that commute was like. 

Lou Gagnon - 05:28 - And so we were looking at probably four years of me being away for a couple of weeks every month, traveling back and forth from Los Angeles to Hong Kong and the kids were young and we decided that we would just take the chance and do what we had planned to do in retirement before we could actually be retired. And that was in a left Disney in 2001. And we started LynnVale Studios in 2000 and uh, we got very, very, very lucky in that we were in a place where we could grow flowers along the way, ended up enjoying the growing of flowers and we were able to have a strong enough market here to be able to afford to do this as a living as opposed to, you know, sort of as a hobby. 

Kelly Perry - 06:20 - So you said that was in about 2002 was when that switch happened for you and you started the studio? 

Lou Gagnon - 06:28 - Yeah, we took a little bit of time to just sort of change gears, so we left in 2001 and then I think in the spring of 2002 we started LynnVale Studios and we started tilling up the first acre of ground with a walk behind to work. 

Kelly Perry - 06:44 - That was really brave. You guys are really brave. Really brave. Yeah. I didn't know that. I didn't know that you were based in LA for awhile. I knew that you had worked in Orlando, um, since the conference was down there last year. I talked to Andrea about that project that you're working on with Epcot and those kinds of things, but didn't realize that you were also on the west coast as well and where you live now. It's not, it's not rural, I wouldn't say, but I mean it is very different than being in the middle of a big city like that. So 

Lou Gagnon - 07:18 - We're, we're lucky to end that. We're sort of on the edge of the suburban area of the Washington metropolitan region. And so it's quiet and there's space out here, but you know, traffic permitting, we can be in the city pretty quickly so it gives us a nice audience. 

Kelly Perry - 07:35 - So you had mentioned like the market that you're serving, so primarily with the flowers. And during, no, but you can speak to this kind of like the, the areas or the reach that you serve with the flower part of the farm. 

Andrea Gagnon - 07:50 - We are primarily selling in the DC area and I think we started out more local to our farm but then we eventually evolved into selling at fewer markets in the city. Um, over time there was a period where we did as many as six markets a week and did weddings and I did all the markets, so farming in the morning and marketing in the afternoon. Then weddings on the weekends and I'm not sure actually how we managed to make it through that. But those are kind of necessary. That's what you need to do to make it happen. So. And I'm grateful for all those experiences of our event work tends to be more, kind of a nice balance between the city and the country where our condom on. It's a lovely, as we mentioned on the edge. So a lot of people come out here for destination weddings at local wineries and farms and then since so many of our markets are in the city and so much of our connection for our events is word of mouth. 

Andrea Gagnon - 08:50 - Um, we ended up doing a lot of events in the city as well, so we're kind of a nice position. And then of I'm selling two designers, we have some local designers as well as designers in the city. So I don't feel like we're that far out of the city. Although when you talk with people who live in DC though, like, oh, how far is it? I've heard it's only 45 minutes. It just seems like a short jaunt these days, particularly when we were used to a long drives in Oregon and LA, which were other where we live. 

Kelly Perry - 09:17 - Yeah, yeah, absolutely. There's some cities that just takes 45 minutes to get across town, so it's pretty local feeling. Well, um, Lou, maybe you can elaborate a little bit more on what your focus is on the farm. 

Lou Gagnon - 09:33 - I'm the sort of flexible capital, uh, the things that I'm interested in doing. I mean, obviously I'm instructed them to flower farming part of things, but they sort of have a variety of, of things that I do want to make paintings that I sell to the general public. I also teach private instruction, art and design. Occasionally I go to places and do lectures, Barnes Foundation in Philadelphia last spring and I did a workshop with their dose and some guide, which was very helpful because they have an enormous amount of knowledge about art history, but not that much about what painters or artists think about when they're actually making the mechanics of things. 

Kelly Perry - 10:14 - That's so interesting. I was really smart to have you come and inform on that. 

Lou Gagnon - 10:22 - Yeah, it was, it was fascinating because there's a note in. What I enjoy about that is that you're basically teaching with the teachers so I can go on the private instruction part. I get to work with people, help them transition from being an amateur to professional artists or help them fill professional artists, fill in the gaps of their education and help them do what they want to do as opposed to teaching a specific style or a report or some kind of formula or recipe, and then the other part of that is the rest of that is whatever it needs to be done around here, whether it's turning the water on or off or driving a tractor or mowing the lawn or running to the hardware store. Those are the sort of thing I do a lot of the the image of either taking the photographs that you see on the website over editing, all of that, making little videos and everyone wants to want to get to make a sand castle or two. 

Kelly Perry - 11:24 - Financial support for the production of this podcast is brought to you by Team Flower's foundations for growing cut flowers online course. This class is designed to help you start your growing journey on solid footing. This class is perfect for beginners or those who have tried growing flowers before, but haven't been successful yet. People aren't born with a green thumb. It's something you have to cultivate in this class. You'll learn how to set up your space for seed germination and care will demonstrate planting and watering so you can be confident you're doing it just right. You'll be guided through an entire year in the life of a cut flower grower and Lauren tried and true principles to take the steps from seed to bloom and beyond whether you'd like to start a career in growing specialty, cut flowers, or would just like to look at beautiful blooms in your garden. You are welcome here. If you're ready to experience the magic of growing your own flowers, you can learn more today at teamflower.org/online.

Kelly Perry - 12:18 - Lou makes amazing sand castles. You guys are going to have to check out his Instagram. We'll put a link to it in the show notes, but just surprise on the beach. You were like walking up and all of a sudden there's like a majestic, majestic, like out of, out of imagination, unreal kind of seeing castle just sitting there and um, I saw you were on a trip not too long ago and I had commented on one of them and it was just, it was so breathtaking and I was just imagining like being one of those people who had the surprise that day and that level of excellence calling the rest of us out to pursue what it is though we're called to do and I'm just like raising the bar. And I think that that's something that's so special that we get to do as artists is create excellent, excellent work and encourage other people to find whatever it is that is their piece of inspiration for the world into, to show it, to shine, to be unashamed about it and let that out and encourage people. 

Kelly Perry - 13:29 - So yeah, I definitely have to check out the same vessels. Those are really, really fun in your art is amazing and just all of it. It's really, really beautiful. So I was excited whenever Andrea came down to the conference last year and she said, we have this um, workshop that we hosted the farm and sometimes Lou does this presentation with the workshop for the florist about color and art and, you know, kind of this thing. And I was just immediately in my mind was like yes to all of that because I had um, I had a project where I had to teach the color wheel essentially. And I, something about it didn't sit quite right with me. Like internally I know that it's like the thing that we all learned in school and it's kind of like that standard and you're familiar with it and learn it at different phases throughout school. 

Kelly Perry - 14:30 - And so here I am like doing this review of it and something about it just didn't sit quite right. And um, I don't know, some of you who are naturally creative people. Sometimes you do things without really understanding maybe why you do. Then there's just this internal thing, but it all is. You read it back in the principles of design and in there is a reason for those choices that look beautiful and flow coherently together. So anyway, that's kind of like what I was experiencing this tension with feeling like that something was a little bit off. So when she mentioned this thing about color and that there could be another way. I was like, yes, I want to know that. I want to know that way. There must, there's got to be something deeper to it. And I found one article on the Internet that somebody who was just really like the color wheel. No, no, no, no, like, you know, trying to present another way, but it wasn't enough for me to be able to really grasp it or understand it and all that kind of stuff. 

Kelly Perry - 15:31 - So I was really excited to learn that, that this was something that was out there and I thought it was so fun with just this partnership that you guys have in the unique place that you've created. And I'm always interested in being a resource for people who want to go deeper or want to learn more. And all those kinds of things. So this is such a, a neat place if you're listening and you just feel that little lump in your throat, this might be, you might need to go and visit and Andrea for their workshop or for private instruction or something like that. If you're really wanting to go deeper and understanding about some of these things, maybe you painted it one time, like Lou, when I was 12, everyday I would come home after school and that's what I did for fun with my acrylic paints that, you know, 

Lou Gagnon - 16:24 - Why did you stop? 

Kelly Perry - 16:26 - That's such a good question. And at the conference last year we had a little art thing probably I started decorating cakes. So there was like another thing that was happening in life, but I realized that I hadn't done it for such a long time. And so when I got back from the conference, I got off my paints and I made like a little, little four by six forget made out painting. And um, that's something that I definitely, I find it to be. It activates a different part of your brain. And I don't know how to explain it other than that, but it's soothing and it's a way to interact with flowers that's a little bit different. So I'm wanting to learn more about that and to get better at that, but I have to send you a picture of my, of my latest one latest and very basic or. But yeah. Um, 

Lou Gagnon - 17:23 - Please do. 

Kelly Perry - 17:25 - No, that's a good question. Yeah. I, um, I have always loved all kinds of different creative things and my favorite Christmas presents were always like those kits where you could build something or make something and there's stencils and markers and paper and stuff like that involved. So. Okay. Yeah. That's awesome. Well, tell us maybe what are some the largest obstacles that you've faced in growing flowers? Maybe there's like a funny story in there that good encourage somebody who's in the midst of getting, going in their flower growing journey. And I'm just like, what you, maybe some advice that you might give to somebody who's kind of like in the throes of it being summertime and hot. Maybe just encouragement from one to another. 

Andrea Gagnon - 18:21 - Sure. I'll speak to that. Um, I think early on and I think it's probably most newer growers would relate. For me, I had never, I was raised in a family that my mother loved to garden, so I had that familiarity with. I wasn't afraid to try it. Um, and I think there's anything new and I share, we're kind of good at jumping. Let's move to Virginia and start a flower farm. Okay, let's, let's write on that rollercoaster. I was ready to go. I'm perhaps less prepared in the parachute that Lou. I remember like, Oh, I'll go, let's jump. And I kept falling and like, this is great, this is great. And then I'm like, what's that thing on your back? Of course I'm like not, not thinking about, you know, what happens when the reality of the learning curve of how to grow hits you. Um, and I think that that's, that can seem like the overwhelming obstacle at the time. 

Andrea Gagnon - 19:16 - And I remember for the first maybe five years, that's really what I focused on was just not knowing how to grow commercially. And there were a lot of great resources that, that helped me through that. But I think looking back, there are things that then later became obstacles or it was almost like that obstacle obscured all the other little things that, that were kind of contributing to how had him that development process and you know, if I had to, I think now when I look at what are the obstacles, they're almost all internal, all, you know, what I tell myself about what I can and can't do. That's my biggest obstacles now. And I think they were there in the beginning. I just was distracted by, by this huge mountain of a curve and I still have my growing challenges. And in fact, just a few minutes before getting on this podcast, I was staring at some values that I was trying to figure out what's, what's, what's going on with them. They've had, you know, so there's, there's challenges for every grower, no matter what level they are. 

Andrea Gagnon - 20:16 - But I think, you know, advising new growers, um, it's one of my, it's one of my favorite things to talk about because I think having this perspective at least bit having done this for quite a few years and also having started with very little training and commercial growing, um, I always tell her but not the best for our, but I'm pretty good at selling and I'm pretty good at constantly evaluating and reevaluating where we are and where we need to go. And that I think when, when we started lose experience with Disney, made him very uncomfortable with uncertainty doing impossible projects. I was far less comfortable with that. And so when things didn't go right early on it was, you know, it could be debilitating moving forward. And I think over the years it's just become a, okay, this isn't working. There's about a million things now in my tool house that I can try to fix it based on my experience. And so I think a big part of our shared business experience has been me kind of catching up to where Lou was. 

Andrea Gagnon - 21:18 - And I would not say I'm at the same level, but I certainly have become more comfortable and kind of taking the emotion out of, okay, the deer's theory at all my lilies in one night, you know, let the pause for five seconds and think about that and then let's make sure we have the effect of it. Um, and so I, um, you know, for new growers, maybe I'm taking yourself out of your space taking workshop, kind of getting out of your zone, literally, um, you know, not necessarily are kind of stepping away and looking at your farming operation from a different perspective I think is so important. Um, it's really easy to get overwhelmed and feel like you're alone. It, it's kind of a, you know, when you're out of there in the field. Um, and so I think that a workshop or even your conference, which I found so exciting to participate in and thank you so much for, for having me last year and I'm really excited for Waco. 

Andrea Gagnon - 22:19 - Um, those experiences help you look at just even tiny nuances that you learn and you pick up in those experiences, helped so much guide you. Um, so I think maybe not to ignore those gut feelings and you can do that on a more local basis as well. You know, I think early on I volunteered and one of my customers shop shops at Valentine's Day, so I've been selling to them for years. I knew they needed help, I didn't have much to do and it was a great way to learn some floral design skills. But also I really learned the value of our product after making the hundredth. I'm try to be ftd look alike. Okay. Um, I was craving just one stem of basil, just something that had fragrance. And of course this is the off season and, and luckily the Bau, the business or the industry seems to kind of be rebalancing itself a little bit and we're starting to see things more available year round and better access. 

Andrea Gagnon - 23:21 - And certainly social media has helped. Um, but I guess stepping away and getting a different perspective would probably be my best advice to a new grower and not necessarily opportunities to just on farming, connecting with your community, making real connections with real people. Not necessarily virtual, always. It's easy to get lost in social media. I love the balance. I was just talking with the designer about the balance of having farmers markets events and designer connections because all three of them feed different, um, parts of what makes it exciting for me to grow and just such a beautiful, simple act of growing the flower and handing it to someone at market that's so gratifying and easy that I, uh, you know, depending on what type of sales model people are developing, um, I wouldn't ignore those opportunities. 

Kelly Perry - 24:18 - Yeah, I think that's so good and it all links back to not being together piece in the, just like the depth and richness that we can bring out in each other when we come together. Like that exchange is so powerful and beautiful and yeah, there's just, there's nothing else quite like that. Um, whether it be with somebody that you know, or a stranger, I don't know how true this is, but I was watching, um, well maybe it is kind of true because it was a ted talk, so I mean it was kind of on a higher level than a random Facebook, but a lady had done some research about what, um, what helps people, um, what helps people live the longest and at the very top of the list it wasn't anything, um, you know, it wasn't anything health related, although not smoking was number three.

Kelly Perry - 25:18 - But the things above that we're, how many close relationships you have and then how many people you talk with just on a daily basis, like how many interactions do you have? Like did you smile? The mailman, did you look at the person who checked you out in line at the grocery store? Did you like, did you actually have a connection with these people? How many little kind of conversations did you have? And I do feel so much more stable or happier balanced or I'm not sure exactly what the right phrase is for it. Whenever there is more of that in my life, so I think that that, that piece of coming together in some way, whatever it is in coming out of like you're saying, coming out of our own, you know, fields and uniting and discussing like it, it helps with that retention piece so much and I think it can make us more passionate about our work and all those kinds of things. 

Kelly Perry - 26:19 - There's really, really good advice. Thank you for sharing. Yeah. Well I jotted down whenever you were talking Andrea, you were saying that some of the limitations that you experienced were kind of like internal obstacles and then I like immediately flash back in my mind to lose question of why did you stop which Lou always asked really intentional deep questions that help you think about your whole entire life. And then it occurred to me. 

Lou Gagnon - 26:53 - That's why it's good to be on the farm away from everyone. 

Kelly Perry - 26:58 - I had this one lash back to being an art class. I think I was probably in like the end of ninth grade, early 10th grade or something and my natural ability to be able to do something without trying really hard at it or really putting in the practice of the time because things have things typically will come pretty easily or quickly to me. And then there's this point where you have to decide if you're going to break through into excellence realm in that area of life or if you're going to try something different. And so I remember sitting there and having this thought that Oh like these, these people over here and they're a little bit maybe a little bit older than me, but the skill level that they had was like stairsteps above where I was. 

Kelly Perry - 27:57 - And I remember like also walking down the hallway where they would like to display all of the art and just sort of thinking like, wow, that's like what they're doing over there. Like that's really interesting. So I think that there, that, that was definitely underneath. I did start making cakes and going up, you know, going in just a different direction with that. But I think that there was something significant in there and I'll have to think a little bit more about it and see if I still think that way about different things. Like if I'm just like, okay, well moving on, you know, or if there are things that maybe I should dig into a little bit deeper and sharpen and expand skillsets and things. So anyway, that just came to mind. So thank you Lou for this revealing moment about my self and psyche. 

Lou Gagnon - 28:47 - All right. Out there in the public. 

Kelly Perry - 28:49 - I'll just right out there. It's so good. Think about though, like why, you know, why, why did I stop doing it and what did that look like? But yeah, I think I just, I think I hit a wall where it was kinda like, well I don't really. I don't really know how to. I don't really know how to move forward from here, if that makes sense. Like I didn't just didn't have it around me or want to do it.

Kelly Perry - 29:19 - Financial support for the production of this podcast is brought to you in part by the Team Flower conference where flower lovers from all over the world gathered together for education, connection and celebration here, stage presentations from industry leaders on inspirational and educational topics in both design and business. Connect with like minded professionals and think tank discussions and share your own questions, dreams and advice with your peers, network with industry support, enjoy flower theme celebrations and receive encouragement for wherever you are in your journey with flowers at the Team Flower conference, you'll have the opportunity to make history as together we create the future. We want to see in the industry one step at a time, whether you're a farmer, florist, wholesaler, floral artist, or someone who just loves flowers. You welcome here. There's something truly magical that happens when we all come together and we'd love for you to join us. You can find the latest information at teamflower.org/conference. 

Lou Gagnon - 30:15 - Yeah. A lot of times that's where it helps to have someone else there who can sort of not necessarily show you a path, but show you a variety of ways that you can go someplace. It's not uncommon for people to look at what Andrea and I do and I think it's very romantic and it is, but like any real romance, it's an awful lot of work and there's a. there's a point where we have a tendency to want things to be easier, but all of the big steps that I think is metaphorically, if you look back at those big steps that you've made, it wasn't because it was easy. It was because someone helped you believe you could do something hard and get past the hurdles and the obstacles and and just keep going and keep trying and not take it all. So personally. 

Kelly Perry - 31:09 - That's another thing you guys have said a couple of times that sort of taking the personal part out of it, which is really wise, really wise. 

Lou Gagnon - 31:19 - It's very hard to do because you want them to be. Obviously you want to invest everything you have and whatever it is that you're doing, but you also have to be able to step back and say, okay, well is it working? You know, and when I give advice to people about wanting to become professional artists, I tell them that they need two things, a, they need a studio because if they have to set up and clean up, they won't do it, and the most valuable, most valuable time that you have is when you have 15 minutes to just go in and stare at something and then let your subconscious know, figure out what to do next. Um, and the second thing is that you have to cultivate the skill of being brutally critical of what you do without taking it personally. It's not you. It's this thing you made and the only way, the only way to be really excellent at something is to keep pushing. The same you made is as much as you can towards some idea of excellence that you have. And if you're constantly beating yourself up over it, it just as an obstacle to being able to get better. 

Kelly Perry - 32:28 - I feel like you guys are there. There's so many similar similarities, so many things that that I resonate with what you guys have been talking about and things that I love to share with floral designers that not taking it personally piece and needing to be able to look at it objectively in this whole subconscious piece of look at it for 15 minutes and let your brain work. All of these things translate into floral design work as well. A hundred and 10 percent, so I. I absolutely resonate with all of those things and voices in our heads. Whenever we look at them, we have to write them down and be okay with not knowing in that 15 minutes when we stare at it and trust that when we need to know, well know and be able to keep going in and pushing forward and I think that it could be good to just do some practice arranging. A lot of times what I see happening and floral is there's so much. 

Kelly Perry - 33:26 - There's that production piece where people are trying to get weddings at the door and do really interesting and different things, but there's not the time set aside to be able to practice and systematize and sort of think about that just creatively in space, like you need some time to sort of let those things shake out and I'm in workout and 

Lou Gagnon - 33:50 - Space to play. 

Kelly Perry - 33:50 - Yes. Yeah. 

Lou Gagnon - 33:53 - That everything has a deadline and everything has a client and everything needs approval. Then you really don't have a lot of place to play in and let your imagination exercise your imagination and it literally just like exercise. It's not that different than a musician or an athlete or or anybody who has to perform. They all spend an enormous amount of time, you know, exercising their bodies for one thing, but also the imagination, the space and the ability to create spaces in their head for, for new things and new opportunities. 

Kelly Perry - 34:33 - Do you have any book recommendations for somebody who might be listening is interested in learning more about imagination? I know you have a lot of books. 

Lou Gagnon - 34:43 - You know, the imagination is a really tricky thing and I have yet to find. There's a great book. The pronunciation of this man's name is nowhere near how it's spelled, so I'll. I'll email you the actual name, but his Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi. Mihaly is a psychologist and there's a wonderful book called Flow. The psychology of peak performance and it's based on a 30 year study of what makes people happy and what is the short answer is that people are happiest when they're working and the challenge is just beyond their level of skill and they're sort of wonderful matrix there where it shows you have the challenge is too great and you don't have enough skilled when you create anxiety and if the skill level is well beyond challenge, then your board and that. His study shows that a lot of a swing back and forth between those two places and that. 

Lou Gagnon - 35:46 - The trick is to sort of find that state of flow where your challenges just just beyond your level of skill. So you keep pushing. And so that's where, you know, in all of the years of studying all of the different people that were involved, it was, that they were happiest when they were in that state of flow. That's as close as I can get. A lot of books about imagination sort of. They tend to be sort of a, I don't know what the right way to say this is not particularly helpful because to really be able to talk about imagination, you have to have one that is well exercised. And when you have an atrophied imagination, it's difficult to imagine that someone else has one. Does that make sense? And so it's kind of like trying to explain something to someone that they have no way of experiencing. The best thing I can say about all of that is just create a place where you can play and then try to surround your self with people who liked to do hard things and believes that you can do hard things, um, in, you know, are there for you when you stopped believing them. 

Kelly Perry - 36:53 - It's really beautiful and you guys are amazing. Thank you so much for coming on and talking with us today. I'm always. Yeah, I'm just always smiling when I leave from Andrea and Lou. So good. Well, is there anything else you guys would would like to share before we leave? I know we'll put your website and Instagrams and those things over in the show notes on the Team Flower website and I'm just really would encourage you if this has sparked something in you to check out a visit to the farm and see what opportunities are or might be there for you. Like I said, it's a really special place to me personally and I know these two are really wonderful and just highly recommend any experience there you feel like that that's something that you might like to do, but yeah, anything you might like to share before we close today 

Andrea Gagnon - 37:47 - I would just thank you Kelly. I really appreciate this opportunity and I really appreciate your creating this space for, for anyone who's creative but particularly for the floral industry, um, to have these discussions and it's inspiring to me and I think it's inspiring to a lot of people. And, um, I'm, I'm just so excited to see where your future takes you with Team Flower and you know, how we can help with that. We can, I just see a really bright, positive light in your direction and I'm happy for both of you. 

Kelly Perry - 38:25 - Oh, that's really kind of you.

Lou Gagnon - 38:26 - I agree. Thank you. 

Kelly Perry - 38:27 - Absolutely. Well, thanks again for coming and for all of you who are listening today, thank you for joining us. Remember that your work with flowers matters and that we are here cheering you on. You are not alone, and we're really honored that you have invited us to be a part of your day and your space and we're looking forward to seeing you next time. Thanks for listening to the Team Flower podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode of the Team Flower podcast, would you help us by leaving a rating and review the more ratings and reviews, the easier it is for other flower levers to find the podcast. Thanks for being a part of Team Flower in helping us build this dream together. We're so grateful.