Kelly Perry - 00:01 - You are listening to the Team Flower podcast where we talk about flowers with the people who've dedicated their lives to sharing them with the world. We believe that your work with flowers matters and we're cheering you on. Hi, my name's Kelly. and today, we're talking with Bonnie. Bonnie is the founder and creative designer of b is for bonnie design, a boutique branding studio for creatives. As a brand designer and strategist, she partners with clients to craft brands that are an authentic reflection of their life's work. In addition to being a brand designer and strategist, she's also a small business educator and the founder of The Illume Retreat, which is an intimately restful three day retreat for entrepreneurs striving to build businesses grounded in a clear sense of purpose. In this episode, Bonnie is diving into her passion and sharing how she discovered it and started her business. We're talking about all of the elements of branding and common mistakes that people make when it comes to building brand. Why is a strong foundation important for a successful brand? Is a question that we're wrestling with in this episode and how does having a solid brand alleviate feelings of comparison? 

Kelly Perry - 01:00 - The answers are here on the team flower podcast. This podcast is brought to you by team flower and online support community dedicated to educating, connecting and empowering flower lovers worldwide. We provide online classes in person events and free weekly resources like this podcast designed to support you in your journey with flowers, whether you're a professional florist to our farmer, or really no matter what part of the flower industry you're involved with. Maybe you just love flowers. There's room for you here. Everybody's welcome. So come join the party at teamflower.org. Ho Bonnie, it is so great to have you on the podcast today. Thank you so much for joining us. 

Bonnie - 01:38 - Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be chatting with you all today. 

Kelly Perry - 01:43 - Well, I am excited to have somebody on the podcast who specializes in something that's a little bit different than flowers, but very important for people who have businesses with flowers, whether it be design or growing or anything in between. Um, do you work with people to create cohesive branding? So tell us a little bit about your background and what inspired you on this path and we'll talk a little bit more about what you do. What? 

Bonnie - 02:10 - Absolutely. So it's kind of funny. I had no intention of ever starting my own business or anything like that and I feel like so many of us in the creative industry, regardless of what our profession is, I feel like a lot of us can kind of relate to that of almost like falling into entrepreneurship accidentally. And I was getting ready to graduate from university and I was engaged at the time. I was looking at moving across the country to be with my now husband where he was living and I knew that there was a lot of change on the horizon for myself and I was trying to figure out a way that I could really create something that was mine that was a good use of my time and energy and talents, but also was something that would be really a blessing in our lives and help contribute to our new family. 

Bonnie - 03:00 - So I had this crazy idea of, hey, why don't I just launch a website and open a little etsy shop and I have experience with design and I can actually sell like pre made design pieces or premade a wedding invitation, same days, things like that because obviously at that point in time I was engaged. So like all things buddying were completely on my brain all the time. And I actually really got into graphic design during my college training with under my major. And my major was actually journalism with an emphasis in news editorial. So it's kind of funny. I really learned the elements of strong design when I was learning to lay out the front pages of newspapers and uh, the covers of magazines and things like that that we're going to be kind of like supplemental skills to add to your resume. But I really loved how you could take strong design and pair it with a really strong story and you could really create this cohesive picture that helped to share truth in a really clear and cohesive way or really help share someone's story in a new and engaging way. 

Bonnie - 04:10 - And so I loved the idea of kind of combining those two things and I wasn't quite sure as I was getting started what that looked like, that as I opened my little etsy shop and made a few sales and as my friends started hearing about what I was doing, I kept getting text messages or phone calls from friends of mine who were diving into photography or they wanted to become a wedding planners. And they were like, Hey, I need a logo, can you help me put something together? And I was like, sure, absolutely that sounds great. Let's do it. So the more I got to sit down with them over coffee and dig deep into what their vision for their business was and what they were thinking of and you know who they are as people and how we can kind of weave all those elements into a cohesive visual identity. 

Bonnie - 04:59 - I just quickly realized that I was so passionate about branding and what I had been doing up until that point, kind of some freelance graphic design work and you know, some like dabbling in the wedding, stationary industry and things like that. Quickly with something that I moved on from and I just poured all of my time and energy into learning more about branding and how I could serve creatives in our industry wealth through those outlets so that all happened way back when in 2012 and I have absolutely loved over the years being able to partner with hundreds of creative entrepreneurs to really build brands that are more than just pretty to look at, but that are really built on a strong sense of brand strategy so that they are really telling the story of my client's life's work, uh, in a way that is purposeful and profitable. So it's kind of a crazy like winding journey, but I wouldn't have it any other way and I've learned so much every step of the process. 

Kelly Perry - 06:03 - Awesome. Well tell us. I have a couple of questions about branding, but I was thinking maybe it could be helpful to maybe better understand kind of like what would like if you had to define branding for somebody who really didn't have any kind of a business background or maybe it was just kind of like an article that they read once or it just kind of more of a limited understanding. Could you kind of help us just sort of have a foundation for what maybe the elements of branding our and maybe kind of like your personal philosophy for why it matters? 

Bonnie - 06:36 - Absolutely. So there are a lot of different definitions floating around on the Internet about branding and what that means, but in my experience I've really found that your brand is so much more than just your logo or website or a lot of those visual elements that we think of when we think of having a strong brand or having a beautiful brand. And actually if you take the idea of branding and kind of like break it down a little bit more, it can actually be broken into a few different categories. So it's experiential. First and foremost, which means when you are inviting your clients or your customers into your services, your offerings, you know, whether you're sitting down with them over coffee or inviting them into a studio space or a storefront, that's all part of your brand's experience, whether you are thinking about that or not, but how you really set the tone for any of those client experience touchpoints directly pours back into the overall brand that you're building. 

Bonnie - 07:34 - So it's experiential. It's visual. So that's kind of, that's sort of like the fun part of branding that a lot of us spend our time and energy focusing on and that things like your logo or your business cards or website, kind of the fun, pretty details that it's easy for us to kind of wrap our heads around because we can, we can see them and we can engage with them very tangibly. But then on top of that, your brand is as verbal. So it's also made up of things like your brand voice, your message, the copy that you share through your social media posts or website. So it's actually a very multifaceted concept and so when I am chatting with business owners who are just getting started or maybe it's something where they have started to realize that their brand has so much more potential than just a pretty logo or just a gorgeous website and they want to take that deeper. I really encourage them to focus on, you know, kind of beefing up the experience behind their brands and then also really beefing up kind of the verbal touch points behind their brand. 

Bonnie - 08:34 - So really solidifying their brand voice, really getting clear on their brand's messaging and then maybe working with a copywriter to create some, some beautiful copy that will help convert with your ideal client so that you basically have this really robust toolkit of all of these different components that when you put it all together, adds up to one beautiful profitable brand. 

Kelly Perry - 08:57 - I love that you started with that experiential piece because I do think there is so much emphasis on the visual piece and it really is. It's like three legs of a tripod. Like we need all of them and what's their, I'm not sure who the author of this quote is, but that the way that we make people feel is what people really remember. And um, I come back to that a lot with whenever I'm not a brand expert, but whenever I'm talking with folks about their businesses and different things like that, sometimes there's so much emphasis on like, Ooh, I don't want to take that wedding because I don't want that picture floating around the name on it or whatever. But I just, I really feel like that if you gave them a great experience that that's one of those things that continues to convert in the future. 

Kelly Perry - 09:46 - You can disagree with me, but I think the, I think that experiential piece and it is, it's more than visual and even verbal, like thinking about how does it, how does it translate into words is really such a big and beautiful piece and it's hard to know what these things are right away. Do you find that you offer to clients is helping them figure out a little bit more about themselves and whenever I worked with Lindsay on what we were doing, I feel like that that was, she was drawing out things about team flower that I didn't really know were there or that we're special because I live with it all the time. 

Bonnie - 10:24 - Right? It's so hard, especially as creatives in our industry, a lot of us, um, maybe we consider ourselves to be artists or um, definitely people who are oftentimes very emotionally tied to the work that we do. And because of that, sometimes it's hard for us to take kind of an objective look at our brands and quickly identify those things that make us unique or that you know, really set us apart. You know those differentiators, which is why I think it's so important to whether you're working with a professional brand designer and strategist, or maybe you're just sitting down over coffee with a close friend or someone in your industry who you trust and having them kind of call out those things that they see about you or your brand or your team. I feel like that can be just such an eye opening experience. 

Kelly Perry - 11:11 - Financial support for the production of this podcast is brought to you by flowers, business foundations, and online class. It's designed for anyone looking to start or streamline a wedding florals business. In this comprehensive course, we'll discuss getting started, drafting contracts, estimates, and proposed healthy client florists, processes. We'll also cover business plans and income projections, sourcing supplies, building a portfolio, and so much more. If you're just starting out, this course will equip you to start your dream business on solid footing instead of doing hours of guesswork and making all of the common mistakes, or maybe you're already pursuing your dream, but you're feeling a little flustered on this business side. This class is for you to guide you through getting your products and policies in place so you can focus on your customers and doing what you do best, creating beautiful designs for them in addition to over six hours of instructional videos. This class also includes 16 helpful business documents like a sample proposal and contract budget planning guide in cashflow spreadsheet. If you're ready to build the flower business of your dreams, you can find out more at teamflower.org/online. 

Kelly Perry - 12:21 - Well, a few common mistakes maybe that you see business owners make with your branding. You might like to elaborate on. 

Bonnie - 12:30 - I think there are a few different kind of mistakes, sort of some pain points that I see people making over and over again and I think that one of them is building something through your visuals that is based on what other people are doing and I think that that's kind of the age old struggle. Like this idea that there's nothing new under the sun, but it can also feel kind of whether you're aware of it or not. It can feel kind of comforting to follow a path that someone else has already blazed because trailblazing is uncomfortable and it is a challenge and it requires so much of you, um, and the same as kind of true and your branding and sometimes it's easier to hop on Pinterest and find beautiful inspiration of other people's branding boards, other people's business cards, things like that and want to recreate that for yourself. So a very common issue that I see other creatives making is this idea of unintentionally recreating what someone else has already done through their branding. 

Bonnie - 13:27 - And the key here, the way to kind of bypass that has to dig a little deeper when you're finding inspiration. When I'm working with my clients, I'm very careful about the ways that we use tools like Pinterest to gather inspiration because although there's so much beauty that we can find on Pinterest, it also can be kind of be this, like this spiral of like finding other people's work and focusing on what other people are doing and unintentionally losing sight of the precious opportunity that you have to create something that speaks to who you are and what you do. So I kind of like to encourage my clients to put their blinders on when they go on Pinterest and focus instead of like finding photos as other people's work in terms of other logos, other business cards, other websites. I encourage them to focus on pulling and images that really evoke the emotions that they want to feel when they see their brand and the emotions they want other people to feel when they see their brands. 

Bonnie - 14:22 - So we're going to places like fashion or landscapes or architecture, interior design and floral design. We're going to a lot of these different places for inspiration through color or texture or composition because there's so many different opportunities to really pull in amazing emotion and kind of that overall aesthetic through work that actually isn't tied to graphic design as a whole. And so from there you can actually a look at all the images that you're pulling and say, oh, okay. Like I'm really drawn to visuals that make people feel joyful or make them feel inspired or make them feel warm and welcome and invited into my brand so then you can work with a designer to really create a logo or business cards or other stationary pieces or a website that really echo those kinds of themes and those emotions. 

Bonnie - 15:16 - So that's probably one of the kind of the biggest pain points that I see people kind of struggling with of taking what other people are doing and trying to incorporate it into their own branding and that robs you of the opportunity to create something that is absolutely one of a kind to you and your brands, but also kind of gets you in this kind of tricky situation of creating something that's kind of a hodgepodge of elements of maybe there's a little bit of this person's brand over here and a little bit of this person's brand over here and then maybe a little bit of your own brand over here. But when you kind of switched them out together, it doesn't necessarily come together to be this beautiful mosaic. It's still just a bunch of disjointed pieces that have kind of been smudged together, so I know that the reason why we see that as a common mistake is because it's easy and it's kind of a slippery slope. Sometimes you're falling into it and you don't even realize it, but that's why I think that it's important to share some ways that we can bypass that altogether so that hopefully you can just save yourself some time and energy and just bypass that altogether. 

Kelly Perry - 16:18 - Such good advice and the more and more I talk with creatives, I'm amazed by the overlap that can be there so like people have. This is something like dialogue that I'll hear perhaps at a workshop or something that I'm teaching where it's like, well they brought me the picture on Pinterest and like I don't want to just replicate that design, but yet the common mistake that you're seeing whenever creatives are coming to you is that desire to replicate the design. In a sense. I don't think it's purposeful, but it's just is really interesting that there's something deeper there. More of like kind of a human thing than like this isolated project and it stretches across different, different industries and it kind of pops up in different ways. So whenever you're saying that I was just like, oh we, you, you kind of can know what if you happen to be listening and you've had a client bring you that you've had that thought before. 

Kelly Perry - 17:09 - There's other ways that, that we can do similar things in our own businesses in lives that are kind of like the same underlying piece so it can help us be more compassionate when whenever our clients bring us things like that too. I think. Yeah. And then too, like I was just talking with another person yesterday for the podcast and he was talking about how important it is to sell a concept instead of like a specific, maybe a specific flower. And I thought that was such good advice as well, like how you're breaking it down into emotions that can then be translated in really unique and special ways. So I really appreciate you sharing that but that was really good. So next question. When it comes to creating a consistent brand, what do you think are the things that make the biggest impact? Is it story, the design and the copy? Maybe kind of how they're all working together, but what do you feel like is that sort of just like that last little touch for consistency? 

Bonnie - 18:10 - Yeah. I think the biggest thing you can do to set your brand at for a consistent kind of future is if you focus on building a brand on a strong foundation first, and so what I mean by that is focused on creating a brand that is built on a clear set of brand values, a clear mission, a clear vision and a clear message, and then from there you can build on that by you know very clearly identifying your ideal client so that you know that person intimately and from there you can build all those things. You can build the visuals, the copy, all the different tangible touch points. You know the different ways to delight your client experience. You can actually build out all of those things from that foundation because all of that insight that you've just really honed through those different questions and you know, identify those different ideas is going to influence the kinds of choices you can make. 

Bonnie - 19:07 - So if you are building a brand with an intimate knowledge of your ideal client and also an intimate knowledge of what you're wanting to communicate us very core behind your brand, then that's going to change the kinds of services you might offer. It might not necessarily add up to something that looks like what everyone else is doing. It might help you do the work that you do in a slightly different way that is more unique and more genuine to you and your brand in a way that really resonates with your ideal client. So I think if we can kind of start off with a strong foundation and that regard all those different facets like you know, visual consistency, consistency through your copy, they will become much more second nature to you because you know what it looks like to be reinforcing those ideas and honoring those values and really making decisions that always come back into support that underlying foundation for your brand and that way. 

Bonnie - 20:04 - It's something that it's so important and I've seen my clients have so much success when we take out approach and even friends of mine in the industry when they choose to take that approach. I've seen them just experience like explosive success because it really does transform the way that you are making decisions for your brand. So instead of choosing. I'll just say a business cards because that's something that a lot of us can really identify with a resonate with because we pretty much all have business cards. But if you are choosing new business cards and choosing the new printing method that you want to use or you know how you want those to be designed them instead of just focusing on what's pretty or what's popular right now, or what trends you see in the wedding industry currently that you're wanting to emulate, you can take a look at that tiny little, tiny little stationary piece and ask yourself, okay, is this a design that is going to a) tell my story well and b) is it going to resonate with my ideal client? Like when I hand this business card to my ideal client, will they feel the emotions I want them to feel well, they received the kind of experience or impression that I want them to receive. 

Bonnie - 21:09 - Will this be a connection point that will turn into something deeper and that. So there's the kinds of questions that we can ask ourselves and it helps you see incredible results when you just dig deeper versus asking, are these, are these business cards pretty or do I like this font? If we focus more on the meaning behind it, then I think that's where we can start to see a lot more success and consistency is just like this amazing byproduct of that whole process because obviously if you're operating from a very cohesive, clear foundation, it just becomes so much easier for consistency to be something that is just almost by nature built into the process along the way. Does that make sense? 

Kelly Perry - 21:53 - And just kind of circling back to that foundation piece, I kind of like who you are as a person and what you. The impression that you hope to leave on the world for lack of a I mean that seems like a really kind of big sweeping statement to make, but you can be you in a lot of different ways and in a lot of different industries and for now it might be flowers and for later it might be something else. Who knows, but there is this kind of like feel like in each of us there is really this core kind of like driving thing that we, that we leave the world with. Whether we're aware of it or not aware of it and I think it's such a great gift when we can figure out what is that thing that that positive thing that we leave people with and that's a really great place to kind of start some of those conversations. 

Kelly Perry - 22:46 - Like for me it occurred to me that I always want to leave, leave a conversation or a place with the person that I've been with feeling like light and bright and like they can do it and just that kind of like joy component and that didn't really necessarily look like some of the things that whenever the business was early and especially when I think about like the way that Team Flower appeared visually when it first came out into the world. It just, it wasn't those things, but when I went back into rebrand, I knew that that was such a, just a. it's something you naturally do that you like, you can't, you almost can't help but do that thing. And so that's something that people who are so close to you can kind of give you that little bit, but you can't go at war with that in your business and do something that's completely separate from who you are, even though it might be a good business idea or something because the passion is the part that you can't leave behind. 

Kelly Perry - 23:47 - So anyway, I just. Yeah, I just wanted to circle back to that for a second and even just take it back to childhood and just kind of those innate things that have always been there in there about you and how that might play into what your product is and who your clients are and all those kinds of things. Because you can also get into a place where something sounds like a really good business idea and it just actually goes against a value that you have that you're like, ah. Like I can't do that. Like for me, I'm always wanting to invite more people in. And so sometimes finances can be a part like a piece of that. And so rather than creating like an exclusive kind of really expensive flower experience, it's always been my goal is to like how can I make it costs less so more people can be a part of it. How can I make this accessible to everyone? Because that was like a really core value that's been there for years and years and years. 

Kelly Perry - 24:49 - So it's those valued pieces are so glad that you brought that because it does drive these other elements of the brand. It does inform the product and who the clients are and then how that spills out into how we connect with them through the visuals and the words and their experiences and that whole piece of things. And I'm always interested in digging deeper and figuring out patterns and what's underneath. Like you had mentioned the Pinterest page and things like that. I just really have found that like collecting all of those things. There's principles of design in those things that you're naturally drawn to and there's feelings inside of those things as well that, you know, you might've seen, like in clients will bring you a Pinterest board and sometimes you can start to sort of see like, oh, this client is always choosing things that are x, y, z, whatever, fill in the blank. We can do kind of the same thing for ourselves and help, um, help our brains established patterns or give it to a friend and say, what do you see when you look at this? 

Kelly Perry - 25:49 - Does it look internally conflicted or like, you know, and like asking yourself the same questions you asked your clients whenever you're designing for them, like how, like what is it about this image that you really love? And figuring out what those patterns all are all really great clues into an, uh, taking that next step and investment of putting some words and designs and fine tuning the story and all those kinds of pieces of it. So really, really good advice. Thank you for. Thank you for sharing on that, Bonnie. 

Kelly Perry - 26:22 - Financial support for the production of this podcast is brought to you in part by the Team Flower conference where flower lovers from all over the world gathered together for education, connection and celebration here, stage presentations from industry leaders on inspirational and educational topics in both design and business. Connect with like minded professionals and think tank discussions. Share your own questions, dreams and advice with your peers, network with industry support, enjoy flower theme celebrations and receive encouragement for wherever you are in your journey with flowers at the team flower conference, you'll have the opportunity to make history as together we create the future. We want to see in the industry one step at a time, whether you're a farmer, florist, wholesaler, floral artist, or someone who just loves flowers. You're welcome here. There's something truly magical that happens when we all come together and we'd love for you to join us. You can find the latest information@teamflower.org/conference. 

Kelly Perry - 27:18 - Next question. How could having a brand that fits you and your business help with the feelings of comparison and self doubt and maybe really knowing those values as a piece of that, but tell us a little bit more about kind of how you've seen people who have gone through a branding process. Yeah. Just kind of like transform in that area.

Bonnie - 27:39 - Yeah. I love this question because I think that, you know, those feelings of comparison, honor our feelings that we all experience at one point or another and our businesses and I don't even, I don't think they ever really go away, but I do believe that, um, you know, really filling your work and your life and your brand with, with truth and with things that are reflective of who you are as a person, as a creative. You know, what your best work really looks like. I think that those can be sort of these pillars that we can lean on when comparison comes knocking at the door and when it comes to your brand. Having a brand that really is an authentic representation of you and your story and the value that you bring to the table. I can help a lesson. I won't say it'll. It'll alleviate those feelings of comparison because that's just a human emotion that we all wrestle with. 

Bonnie - 28:36 - But it can really alleviate those feelings of comparison because instead of having having this brand that's built around what everyone else is doing and the way that you know everything else looks or feels or sounds, it's built around you and your story and your values and your mission and your ideal client and all these things that are really unique to you and so instead of it being a brand that really by nature is trying to measure up to someone else's standard of success. We've built a brand around you and one that pours into your definition of success. And so there's like this confidence and this assuredness and this almost sense of peace that comes when you do business in that way because instead of trying to measure up to what other people are doing or trying to measure up to what you're seeing on Instagram or social media, you can kind of lean into the comfort and the confidence that comes from building a brand and building a business on a foundation that is truly reflective of who you are and the work that you feel passionate to do. 

Bonnie - 29:43 - Not what other people are doing or what's trending on social media that day or anything like that. So I feel like there are a lot of really strong emotional benefits that come when you choose to do business in that way and build a brand from that space. But I also, I do know that there are some grades to professional benefits and when we choose to build brands that honor who we are as individuals and that are unique and that are different, um, we give our ideal clients the opportunity to discover us and to work with us. And it kind of helps lessen this feeling of like there's all this competition out there that we have to be like fighting through to reach your ideal clients instead of we can be building brands that almost serve as a very clear, bright little beacon of who we are and what we offer those experiences, those values, those services to our ideal clients. And it makes it so much easier for ideal clients find you and work with you. 

Bonnie - 30:42 - So it's this great combination of like, yes, you can transform the way that you feel about this brand that you're building and the way you're doing business, but you also can enjoy a lot of the professional benefits impacting your bottom line in a positive way and partnering with the kinds of clients that you love to work with. And I'm feeling that sense of accomplishment as well. That comes from I'm doing work that you're proud to put your name on. 

Kelly Perry - 31:06 - Well, you are going to be sharing more at our conference in Waco, which Waco is your hometown. Go Waco. In 2019, so you're going to be talking about embracing change within your brand, kind of like five steps to navigate seasons of growth with grace and we're really excited to have you share more there and give people an opportunity to connect with you. You have so many great ideas and things to share with people and so we're really honored to be able to have you at that event for sure. And um, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Before we sign off today, maybe just an encouragement for somebody who's thinking about rebranding their business or maybe just a little preview into what you're talk might be like at the conference this year. 

Bonnie - 32:01 - Absolutely. Okay. So I chat with a lot of creatives that our industry who are feeling like they're on the cusp ever big rebrand or you know, a series of brand refreshes or things like that. And um, whenever I dive into those conversations, I always like to ask that person what will a rebrand do for you? Because I think that it can be really easy to kind of fall into this pattern of thinking that maybe it's just time to rebrand or maybe I feel like I should rebrand because my best friend in the industry is rebranding or all these kinds of things. There are lots of different factors that can go into. So I think it's important to dive into a rebrand with the right mindset so that you can experience the right outcome for you and for your business. So I would encourage you, if you're thinking about rebranding, ask yourself why do I want to rebrand? 

Bonnie - 32:53 - So is this something that I, um, the seed was planted in my mind when I saw someone else rebrand or do I feel like I've fallen out of love with the brand that I have and I want to make some thoughtful updates to elevate things and kind of breathe some new life into it. Ask Yourself, why do you want to rebrand? And really dig deep with that and then ask yourself, what would a rebrand do for me? So what kinds of benefits can you experienced from a rebrand? Are you going to walk through this rebrand and you're going to be able to market to a higher end audience? Are you going to be able to, um, have a, a deeper sense of confidence and assuredness and comfort in a brand that really looks and feels and sounds like you, will a rebrand allow you to grow your team or scale your business? You know, there are a lot of different benefits that can come from a rebrand when it's done well. 

Bonnie - 33:47 - But I think if you're going to dive into something as intentional and also, um, that's as big of an investment as a rebrand is, it's important to go into that conversation already knowing the results that you want to see so that when you are working with someone to go through the rebranding process, you can actually be making the choices that will help you reach those goals. When you go to launch your updated brand team. So two simple questions, but if you can sit down and identify why you want to walk through these series of changes and what you can experience as a positive outcome after these changes, that's going to help influence your direction moving forward and it's going to help you figure out, okay, yes, this is the right season. I do have best intentions with this, you know, these series of changes and I should move forward with three brand team. Or it might kind of open your eyes to the fact of like, Oh, I actually don't think I need to rebrand right now because what I have isn't actually broken or it's not holding me back. 

Bonnie - 34:48 - It was just, I was kind of caught up in all of the rebranding that's happening on instagram or something like that. Which is like such a common, such a common thing that I see so many people kind of coming across. And so there's, there's nothing wrong with feeling, you know, caught up in what your friends are doing or what others in your industry are doing. But I do think it's important just to be honest with yourself about your intentions in the desired outcome so that, that can influence your choice of moving forward. 

Kelly Perry - 35:17 - And it's so good. And I think about that with philosophers specifically, like the business model that we have on that wedding piece of it in this period of time that we're in right now is super, super duper lean business model, like very minimal expenses in just very targeted. And so the inquiries that come in from the page that's up there that is old kind of, it feels old to me. Um, and it's the same logo that I started with the whole thing. It's all, all the same. But like you're saying like it's not, it's not broken. I have the right flow of inquiries for the size of business that it is and it does its job and it does it well. And um, then I look at Team Flower and I'm like, we still don't have an about page. People will know who the team is, which is so funny, but it's interesting. So there's pieces of it that goal piece of like is it, is it serving its purpose? 

Kelly Perry - 36:18 - I think that's such good advice and a good reminder to me because I will go through phases with philosophy, flowers that it's like I haven't touched this in my three years and it really needs something, but it's working still right now and it won't work forever if the, if that business model changes there, there's some other kind of factor in there, but such good advice to think about what your business is doing and who it's serving and where it's moving and what's moving towards some of you who perhaps really high end businesses might have an itch after listening to this and realizing that you really have a heart for a different type of client base. You might need to rebrand, tore it to feel a little bit more affordable or downer or whatever. It's just. It's interesting kind of how all those things can play. But yeah, getting everything organized across all the different, you know, all the different fields. It goes back to that foundation piece that you talked about. I'm so glad that you glad that you brought that up and so glad that you've been here today. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Is there anything before we sign off today that you just wanted to say or share with our listeners? 

Bonnie - 37:24 - Yeah. Well first of all, thank you so much for having me and just in terms of, you know, kind of closing thoughts. I am so excited to be joining you all in Waco next year and I am so looking forward to diving into this topic of really navigating change within your brand with grace and with purpose in more depth because I think that this is something that we all come face to face with at one point in time or another, his business centers and so if we can equip ourselves and know how we can navigate change within our brands and still have that cohesiveness like you were talking about earlier. Yeah, we moving forward with some purpose and clarity that can just bring so much confidence and can really transform the way that you navigate that change when you experienced that. So I am so excited to be diving into that. Thank you guys so much for inviting me to join you next spring. 

Kelly Perry - 38:17 - Absolutely. Well, um, again, so great to have you and to all of you listening out there today, thank you so much for tuning in. Remember that you're not alone and that we are with you and supporting you along the way. You're always welcome to reach out to us with the red button on the website. There's ever something that we can help you with and we've got lots of articles and videos and all kinds of things to support you in your work with flowers. And Bonnie also has some great things on her website that you can kind of run through. I forget, Bonnie, what's the, what's the. Maybe this changes periodically, but there's kind of like a little kid or something when people visit. I received it. 

Bonnie - 38:57 - Yeah. So when you go to my website, I would just be bisforbonniedesign.com. If you hop over to my blog, there are tons of resources. I've got tons of posts on at branding business. Um, I have a lot of content specifically for brand designers as well to be able to share some of my experience of the past six years with others and I also have just a slew of different freebies and things like that that are sprinkled throughout the website that can help get you started with really elevating your brand as well as growing your business. So that might be what you were talking about. 

Kelly Perry - 39:35 - That is if you are coming to join us in Waco, I recommend taking advantage of some of these things because the, if you're able to, because the things that you can kind of know a little bit more about it on the front end and have more context, there's even more that you can gather whenever you attend some kind of impersonal experience or events. So these things are out there and they're ready for you and encourage you to encourage you to take, take advantage of them. So. All right, well we'll talk to everybody later and see you next time. If you enjoyed today's episode of the Team Flower podcast, would you help us by leaving a rating and review? The more ratings and reviews, the easier it is for other flower levers to find the podcast. Thanks for being a part of Team Flower in helping us build this dream together for so grateful.